Sunil, as a leader of the industry, what has been your key learning so far?
The biggest key learning is that in any industry, be it asset management or wealth management, the customer needs to be at the core. It doesn’t matter which product you want to launch; you will have to come up with a solution that adds value to people’s lives.
If you develop this as a part of the DNA of your organizational culture, no matter what your role in the financial industry is, your alignment of interest will be high.
Another key learning is that if the regulation is good for the customer, how can that be bad for the managers? So, any regulations that have been brought in so far by RBI, SEBI, IRDAI have never de-grown any business. There could be disruption in the short term, but in the long run, it’s a win-win for all.
What are your three key priorities for the company?
We have three key businesses – Asset Management, Alternates, and Wealth Management. We are also enhancing our Asset management business with Mutual Fund in the works.
The biggest priority for me is to build the culture of the organization. We are a fiduciary of our clients’ money. Hence, governance with transparency is the highest on the list. To provide the best of class services for our clients, meritocracy and performance focus need to be in the DNA of business. These 3 are the pillars on which I see my company to be focused.
The second priority is to ensure that ASK Asset and Wealth Management remain a bellwether of the asset and wealth management industry, manufacturing products and services catering to all segments of clients. Historically, we focused on HNIs, ultra HNIs, family offices and institutions, but going forward, we have the ambition to replicate our success in new wealth generators and affluent segments.
And finally, all this will be possible if we continue our focus on creating and nurturing high-quality and high-growth businesses.
ASK is currently the number two player in terms of number of clients in PMS. This is considered a major difference in the top three and the rest of the field. What has contributed to this?
ASK has been a leader in the portfolio management industry because of our strong, disciplined process of research-based bottom-up long-term investing to generate superior risk-adjusted returns through compounding. It is our duty to preserve and grow our client’s wealth sustainably over a long time and not just focus on short-term “fashionable fads or blips”. ASK has been consistent in terms of performance over the last 15-20 years, with a comfortable alpha generation since the inception of our strategies.
As a result, our stakeholders – distributors and clients – have placed their trust in us for nearly 2 decades. We have been at the top of the table across parameters such as AUM, number of sticky clients, performance, unique offerings, and deep relationships.
But performance is cyclical, right? At times you perform well, at times you don’t. What happens when performance is not good?
We strongly believe that the Market is the ultimate truth. Though in the short term, divergences may occur between different segments of market returns, over longer-term sustainable compounding, the eight wonder of the world is the only winner. This can only be achieved by investing in good quality businesses where value generation is sustainable and growth is embedded.
This brings us to another question: how do we define performance, and what are the benchmarks? India is growing at 7%, and inflation is around 4-5 per cent. Overall, 10-11% is the nominal GDP growth of the country. You can further corroborate this by checking that broad index returns have been in the range of 12-13% over long periods.
We, as managers, are supposed to generate positive alpha. An additional 3-4% alpha translates to 15-16% CAGR in the long term. This sustainable return with the magic of compounding works wonders in growing wealth.
PMS and AIF AUM are growing very rapidly. What are the reasons for this and which category of PMS or maybe AIF will do well in future?
Ultra HNIs prefer PMSs and AIFs because they have concentrated, high-quality stocks which have the ability to generate positive alpha in a bigger way. These ideas are generally unique; for example, our ASK’s Indian Entrepreneur portfolio focuses on the entrepreneurial spirit of our country. Such ideas are difficult to find and maintain in any investment class like Mutual Funds. These asset classes have the ability to take on more risk than Mutual Funds to generate superior risk-adjusted returns, and thus, PMS/AIF provides a chance for higher absolute returns, which is important for investors.
I believe that in the next five years, the AIFs and PMSs will grow to the tune of 25% + CAGR.
And within AIF, which category will do well? Unlisted, Cat I, Cat II or Unlisted Cat III?
Cat II is going to be much larger. Cat II offers a wide variety of choices in equity and debt: sector agnostic, real estate and venture funds. Cat II funds provide unique opportunities absent in other traditional asset classes. For example, banks and NBFCs are shying away from credit. However, investors can take exposure to these credit opportunities through private credit or real estate credit funds.
Similarly, investors can participate in different stages of a company’s life cycle through VC and private equity funds. An investor can diversify his portfolio by investing in Cat II real estate funds. They provide a financial means to gain exposure across cities, developers and macro-markets rather than investing huge chunks in one real asset. Simply put, these funds are good in terms of risk management, diversification and returns.
In my view, the AUM of Cat II AIFs will double in the next 3-4 years.
SEBI has recently allowed fund holders to do new asset classes which are very similar to PMS and CAT III AIF? So how do you see this? Will it affect PMS AIF business? How do you see this change?
I doubt that it will affect the PMS/AIF business. Even at the moment, all MF houses can launch PMS/AIF schemes, but it is the specialized managers, like us, who have been the leaders in the industry for nearly 3 decades. Similarly, for the new asset class, the devil is in the details. We'll have to see the details, but we'll be actively looking at that asset class when it comes.
How can MFDs and wealth managers shortlist what is best for their client?
When it comes to selecting PMS strategies, MFDs need to look at the manager first. As MFDs are the holders of clients’ relationships and money, focusing on managers’ longevity, governance, risk management, style, and approach should be the first criterion.
Performance track record is the outcome of these factors and not the input. Selling performance alone is not a sustainable way to grow and deepen their relationship with their clients.
What are the opportunities for MFDs in distribution of PMS and AIF?
I think there's a lot of opportunity for MFDs in PMS and AIF distribution. PMS & AIFs provide a win-win situation. Clients get opportunities to diversify their portfolios with unique strategies that provide superior risk-adjusted returns. They can gain exposure to non-mark-to-market asset classes like real estate, private credit, private equity, etc., thus providing stability to their portfolios. This further deepens MFD’s relationships with its clients. PMS & AIF distribution also helps MFDs as they can earn better revenue for themselves, considering the higher ticket size of the investments.